Interjections
The Deity of Jesus Christ
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 NASB
The Deity of Jesus Christ – Of course, this little phrase is not in the verse. That doesn’t prevent most Christian translators from adding it, just to make sure the reader understands what John meant—doctrinally. But Canon Andrew White offers an insight that should cause us to raise a question about this particular doctrinal addition. He writes, “without Judaism, Christianity has nothing to say.”[1] Think about it. Does your biblical faith depend on Jewish thought? Could you continue to believe all that you believe without the “Old Testament”? Is Judaism necessary for you?
We’re not talking about the idea of a God-man. Yes, that’s relevant to this text, but we’ve probably beaten that theological horse to death. What we want to investigate is your foundation. If White is correct, then Christianity without a Jewish worldview is not only nonsense, it’s fabrication. Unfortunately, the history of the Church makes it fairly clear that the great influencers in Christian thought really did believe they didn’t need Judaism in order to worship the God of the Bible. In fact, they went out of their way to expunge Jewish thinking and Jewish practices in order to establish a faith without Jewish antiquity. They co-opted Jewish history and revelation, but not Jewish community or theology, in order to give credence to this new way of reading the Bible. Two thousand years later, topical headings proclaim the doctrines (and direct readers) as if they were also revealed by the non-Jewish God.
Let’s be clear about this. We are not claiming that Judaism as it exists today is the same as the biblical faith revealed in the Scriptures. Modern Judaism has also gone through substantial metamorphosis. Few, if any, believers today, on either side of the Bible spectrum, practice the faith of the disciples, or of the children of Israel in the time of Moses. The point is this: every version of biblical faith changes over time. The culture, circumstances, politics and economics of the believing communities cause variations from the original, as they should. We are not the same people as those who came out of Egypt. That’s perfectly okay. Interpretation of the biblical text has a very long history of alteration in order to be relevant to the current believing population. We might laugh about the Shabbat elevators in Jerusalem, but we all practice modifications of the biblical injunctive because we are no longer tenth century BCE or first century CE believers. The point is this: tolerance seems appropriate in doctrine and practice since none of us are the original intended audience. So let’s disagree—harmoniously. It’s better to hold hands in prayer than raise fists in protest. You might be right—or wrong—about theological statements, but, as Heschel used to say, “The central issue is not Truth in terms of a doctrine, but veracity, honesty, or sincerity in terms of personal existence.”[2]
Topical Index: doctrine, interpretation, John 1:1
[1] Canon Andrew White, Older Younger Brother, p. 46.
[2] Abraham Heschel, A Passion for Truth, p. 45.
“We are not claiming that Judaism as it exists today is the same as the biblical faith revealed in the Scriptures. Modern Judaism has also gone through substantial metamorphosis. Few, if any, believers today, on either side of the Bible spectrum, practice the faith of the disciples, or of the children of Israel in the time of Moses. ”
Thank you for this preclusion and qualification, but please let’s not limit it to modernity. The life and teachings of Yeshua, the apostles and the prophets are what YHWH’s assembly are to be built upon, not JudaISM. Not even the people of “Judaism” in the time of Moses practiced the biblical faith revealed in the Scriptures either. That’s why, after their breaking the Book of the Covenant, the the Book of the Law was given and to be followed UNTIL THE TIME OF REFORMATION, when there was a change in Torah, THE NEW COVENANT WAS MADE, Yeshua became the new High Priest, He absolved the Aaronic priesthood, and He reinstated/restored the His people to the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. Rabbinic and Christian EVANGELISTS, PASTORS AND TEACHERS, and every other of the same, no matter what religious sect they are from, needs to be taken with a grain of salt, just like everybody here on this blog, including me.
So, “AMEIN” to everything else written here today, and thank you, finally, for the much improved balanced comments regarding everyone on “the Biblical spectrum”.
And “hear hear” to this:
“The point is this: tolerance seems appropriate in doctrine and practice since none of us are the original intended audience. So let’s disagree—harmoniously. It’s better to hold hands in prayer than raise fists in protest.”
And to Skip, let’s sing, “For he’s a jolly good fellow….”
To Jerry and Lisa, WELCOME to the club (finally). Where should we send your SKFC
(SKip’s Fan Club) t-shirt, coffee mug and membership card?
To George, From one former RCC member to another: Where’s my “club” to keep you from leaving?
To everyone else: Just kidding. There are no clubs, clicks or coffee mugs offered here …just Skip’s consistent colloquial conversations to the community to solve conundrums, confusion and (spiritual) constipation…and my occasional attempts at comic relief through alliteration. I suspect that even comedy changed throughout the many millenniums, cultures and peoples. Good thing too, how many times would Knock Knock jokes about Sarah’s pregnancy result in “laughter”.
Michael…keep the comic relief coming. It’s appreciated and, imo, healthy. Laughter is good and from the Lord. I suspect Yeshua engaged in it as well.
Hey Michael. Actually, we’re inviting and welcoming Skip, and all who will, into some other significant Biblical ideological realites that we have been trying to share here, which we haven’t heard Skip begin to express quite so clearly as he has today. Hope you’re not surprised or going to take offense, but thanks anyways. We do appreciate Skip and his Today’s Word blog site, but we’ll pass on any membership cards or commitments and we won’t be making a tradition of this celebration either. We know we haven’t arrived yet, but there are some other important matters as conveyed in our original statement here that we pray will be better understood and accepted by all, namely the change in the Torah referenced in Hebrews 7. Also, we are members of the body of Messiah and the Melchizedek priesthood, so otherwise we’ll remain “Independents” regarding religious sects, groups, “movements”, etc., etc., etc., in keep with the traditions of Messiah, the apostles and the prophets. We follow Messiah…..and we don’t wear or use fad or fan t-shirts or coffee mugs.
“I say this because you are each saying, ‘I follow Paul,’ or ‘I follow Apollos,’ or ‘I follow Kefa,’ or ‘I follow Messiah.’ Has Messiah been divided? Paul wasn’t crucified for you, was he? Or were you immersed into the name of Paul?” [1Co 1:12-13]
“Adonai your God is a consuming fire—a jealous God.” [Deu 4:24]
“Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for based on it the people had been given the Torah), what further need was there for a different kohen to arise—designated according to the order of Melchizedek, not according to the order of Aaron? For whenever the priesthood is altered, out of necessity an alteration of law also takes place. For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord has sprung forth from Judah—concerning this tribe, Moses said nothing about kohanim. And it is even more evident, if another kohen arises like Melchizedek— one made not by virtue of a Torah requirement of physical descent, but by virtue of the power of an indestructible life.” [Heb 7:11-16]
I’ve heard from a number of others that I know some of the same ideas that you presented in this post and the one previous. I don’t agree with them on a number of issues and I am one of the ones who “hit the red button” ? and although I don’t have time at the moment, perhaps we can discuss these things as they come up in the following posts as well as this one. Meanwhile, the writer of Hebrews quotes Jeremiah in regards to the new covenant and starts it with, “finding fault with them”…. and goes on to say as did Jeremiah, that it wasn’t the law that was changed but the placement of the law. “I’ll write my law on their hearts”….which in essence is the same thing that Messiah said. Not one jot or tittle. At the fulfillment, we won’t need a school master, everyone will “know” the ways of YHVH. BTW, what we call the levitical priesthood will be reinstituted but some gentiles will be allowed to join in during the millineum. But, that’s not the fulfillment, it’s part of what makes the fulfillment possible. It’s not been annulled, only suspended.
Hi Michael, no club required, just a T-shirt. My T-shirt would say “I met Skip Moen and he trashed my life forever.” It will be a frosty Friday in July before I leave “home.”
Hi J & L
Insightful (wisdom, knowledge, understanding) as always.
Truth & Clarity is why I keep on asking: “Who is the Jew?”; “Who are the Gentiles?” not to raise a fist in protest.
In the same spirit, I would like to propose that John 1 is speaking of 2 WORDS: “the Word was with God, and the Word was God”
The Table’s opinion would be appreciated on this as well as on who the 2 WORDS can be.
Word was, versus word was with I read as explaining the first idea of creation.
Word was God is that God generated the idea
and
Word was with God is that God then applied action to the thought.
Our role is to understand this applied action…
Separated and sanctified flesh, if you wish..
So that we can humble ourselves to become the sons and daughters of this desired or intended creation.
Not cognitive manipulators of the creation…
And this is what being generated from above entails. Read Isaiah 45 and then how even Paul proclaims his calling… All dependent on God’s empowering of those he calls.
On Sept. 12, 2013, Pope Francis in an open letter to the editor of an Italian newspaper, La Republica, wrote: “God’s fidelity to the close covenant with Israel never failed, and…. through the terrible trials of these centuries, the Jews have kept their faith in God. And for this we shall never be sufficiently grateful to them as a Church but also as humanity.”
In November 2013, in the course of the declaration Evangelii Gaudium, he wrote that “the friendship that has grown” between Jews and Christians “makes us bitterly and sincerely regret the terrible persecutions which they have endured and continue to endure, especially those that have involved Christians (RCC at least).” The Catholic Church, he added, holds “the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked.”
Sacks says of this, “God’s promise through Moses and the prophets that His covenant with the Jewish people would never be revoked remains true….. The Old Testament is not old. God’s relationship with the Jewish people is still alive, still strong. Acknowledgement of this fact has changed the relationship between Christians and Jews and helped begin to wipe away many centuries of tears.” Leviticus: The Book of Holiness.
Wow, Francis just might get me back yet.
America is the only other country in the world besides Israel that was founded upon the bedrock of a covenant, the Constitution of the United States, “We the people….” Can Protestant America live up to not one but TWO covenants and redeem itself from itself? Maybe this question should be asked of both the Congress and the NRA.
George, this wouldn’t be the first time the real details are in the fine print. Notice that RCC did not REPENT of persecution, nor did she say she wouldn’t do it again. Her stated policy is to lie in the places she is helpless. Beware!
Thanks Laurita, sage commentary as usual. It will take a long time to turn the massive RCC “H.M.S. Titanic” around I am sure but turning the helm one degree starboard is at least a start when you finally see that you are headed towards the abyss.
Thanks also for the heads-up on The Healing Miracle, I am in recovery mode only three days after treatment. Penny is next up.
No way! What did you do? I am totally going to call you, you guinea pig! Praying for both of you.
“Now when Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the Lord.”
So let’s just all gather around the golden calf and sing Kumbaya? A little universal-ism goes a long way…
Whether Aaron and the crew maintained a form of worship in God or left Him behind in their desires is an argument for another day…but there’s something to be said about the lack of a variable in God’s view.
“We are no longer under the law” (Torah)
“This is my Blood…partake” (For life is in the blood-DON’T- Torah)
“He died for our sins” (No man shall be put to death for… Torah)
Just to cite a few reasons I hold a standard that makes ME answerable for MY actions…I don’t follow the crowd.
Me, too, Richard; about the crowd following and responsibility, too.
About the Law; just because we have been given a place to stay in that is not UNDER the Law does not mean we don’t have a vital relationship with it; it just means that if I am no longer participating in self hatred, say (slow suicide) then the Law that says “don’t murder” is not standing over me with a club. That Command only applies if I, in fact, am still murdering, or go back to it. Law only applies when it applies.
Further, I don’t think I am the only one who can see a difference between the “Law of Moses” that got put beside the Ark, and the “Law of God” that got put inside it. The ceremonial Law only applied under very specific circumstances; it was not universal nor was it eternal; it consisted of “types and shadows:”, of which the Ten don’t have any such description or application. Gentiles may get them confused, but a good Jew shouldn’t.
Hey, it’s the RCC (I guess its pick on them day, sorry) that takes the body and blood thing literally in the Mass. Blood is symbolic of life, and to “drink” that blood is to have that life inside. And, its true; no man should ever be “put to death” for the sins of another, but it says nothing about the One Who came and said that He was “laying down” His life; nobody took it from Him; He said so very pointedly so we would make no mistake; further, He made, in the same point, a big deal out of saying that He would “take it back up” again, too. Not the kind of thing I think I would ever say.
The ‘Word’ as translated in John 1:1 wouldn’t be referring to the Torah would it? As I read this comment of Skip’s and also Leviticus 26, I can’t help but think about our Messiah’s millennial reign and how the tolerance as mentioned in today’s word will be received
16 “Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the [h]punishment of Egypt, and the [i]punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.” (Zech. 14)
Seems Torah instructions will be instituted. Those dang plague’s
Without starting the Trinitarian debate again, yes, I am pretty sure “Word” refers to Torah, not a person.
Ah…Canon Andrew White…what an AWESOME man of God and GIFTED speaker (and writer.)
Would that quote, by any chance, have been discovered while cruising the Mediterranean between Israel, Greece and Italy last November? ?
I had to do some research to learn who Canon White is although he sounded like a good guy even before doing so and certainly seems to be. My interest was particularly piqued though by his conclusion that “Christianity is all but over in the land where it all began.” Christianity started in Iraq? Whatever happened to Palestine, Israel, Galilee, Judah; or Rome or Constantinople or Alexandria for that matter?
Ah, did you think that Christianity as we know it started in Israel? Nope. It took Greek philosophy and Hellenism plus certain bishops in the 3rd and 4th centuries (who were NOT residing in Israel) to put the foundations of Christianity in place. A good number of those bishops were from what we now call Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Greece and Italy.
I agree Skip. For me Christianity began in 325CE with Constantine the (not so) Great but had its roots in Israel.
Yes, thanks for loaning me the book.
Well…now I guess I’ll have to resist the temptation to basque in the pleasure of knowing that I had something to offer the scholar, philosopher, theologian, Dr. Skip Moen. ??
It is an honor to share and consider these most segnificant ideas among people of good will, grace and mutuale respect. I have learned that the abused become abusers jusitifying their actions or blameing their victim’s as their perpetrators did. In the wars for right idiologies or correct theologies much abuse, pain conflict and out right murder has been perpetrated. We of the word and the way of YHVH are not at liberty to condone or engage in such indescretion. It is not becoming of people of Jahh. It takes real maturity and sincere grace to offer up opposing religious views without belittling or makeing others view’s smaller some how (no matter how subtle ) than our own. I know the temptation too superior positioning comes as a defense aginst the same . So to Skips words I give my heart felt and enthusiastic yes and Amain . With this caveat regarding correct or accurately interpreting the word for our age, one shared by Art Katz. Art suggests in his book ” Reality the Hope of Glory” (I’m guesing on the correct book it could be from “The Spirit of Truth”…and I’m paraphrasing ) That “to rightly interpret the scriptures or words of the prophets one must be in the same spirit as the ones who fiirst wrote them”. If this is indeed true that idea itself might qualify exactly who’s spirit those are in who have used the very words of God to harm, hurt, damage or position themselves as superior or more rightious than others.
As Yeshua said ” you do not know of whose spirit you are” as to the righteous judgments the disciples wanted to call down on the towns who did not believe. Further to the comment about zealousness, I too have hurt unknowlngly and not willingly comprehending that THE truth is not weak and we do not need to put truth on steroids to be powerful and effective. I am talking about the destruction NOT of strongholds of the mind against Christ but the destruction and not edification of Christ’s body….to the truths he desires shared. If we truly believe, The Spirit will bring us into All Truth there is actually an unfatihful counterfeit zealousness based in a pride & not meekness. This most often does not lead to correction as it distorts spiritual truth directed toward the spirit of another member and has a deceptive dip and dive in the hurling of facts instead of questions to encourage answers & self discovery as the Spirit leads.. Accusations most accurately thrown miss the mark. Meekness is sometimes the only light that will ever get in to the narrow place opened for truth to enter any person and it is the greatest strength to operate in that fine boundary as our judgments ARE incomplete. If we truly are of the Spirit of Elohim and proclaiming HIS heart as the essence of salvation and its urgency, will shine through anyway. The lack of competition Against one another and aim of mutuality in the seeking the Creator shine to those whom actually desire the everlasting. Let us battle the enemy and the strongholds not one another. Christ was not weak but what actual strength was he showing in the overturning of tables? Definitely to not be fearful of men & traditions against the Father’s spiritual command. I agree anger has a place in truth that excels in righteousness but generally it seemed that the words of condemnation toward the hard closed hearts do not produce transformation nor do they generally elicit all but the humbled to open wider the door of investigation anyway. Directed Anger for positive transformation also requires intimacy for the point to be comprehended. Perhaps Christ may have acted this way in the Temple also to enable the hearts to be hardened further for those who would not understand as another goad to action so that he WOULD be crucified. The sign of the Anger being misinterpreted and of no use for salvation as there was no connection anyway to those who chose to turn away. shalom. FJ
As we hold hands in prayer as Skip suggests, I trust our circle
is standing together at the narrow gate.
“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate,
but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber.”
That narrow WAY assures the veracity, honesty, and sincerity of our personal existence.
Is the narrow way the word of God manifested in our lives?
Hi Seeker,
The narrow way is one’s willingness to carry their own personal cross
of surrendering the priority of self to follow Him in His kingdom, and to be
willing to suffer the rejection for doing so.
An exhortation: We say community is important, even necessary yet many of us are not in face to face community. Why? Please ask yourself why? Is it that you have not found a people who practice tolerance and harmonious disagreement? Or have you personally had issues with not practicing tolerance and harmonious disagreement? It takes active practice. Find a place to practice.
Hopefully, the former. I see this issue everywhere and I plan to address it in the Tacoma conference in April. All around the world, the same fractional spirit that lead to 40,000 Protestant denominations still exists among Messianic fellowships. We haven’t learned much from Paul about unity.
Amein! Waiting with bated breath!
I think community has to be established on a different basis than what we have been taught. Please, please help us understand what that basis should be.
I hope you do the same in Sarasota.
But brother, that “fractional spirit” exists and has, with every form of the Judaisms as well. If we learn anything from Paul, we should learn we need to be in community, perfect or not. I’d rather be in one of those 40,000, possibly having an impact on one of them, than being without a community. But, in all honesty, it isn’t even necessary to do that. Just open up your door, or someone else’s door, to other believers on the same page, stick with it and walk it out in application. Or, dive into one that already has people you know (maybe even has close family 🙂 there) and be a contributor. Love you, my brother!
Thank you, Tanya!
Thank you, Tanya! I 100% agree. In fact, I would say it’s darn near impossible to walk out a Torah observant life without face to face community. So much of scripture is directly related to and about that personal interaction. I might even go so far as to say it may even be rebellious to REFUSE to seek to be in community. Torah observance isn’t a concept or a bunch or theories, it’s about day to day living it out amongst others.
How do we even remotely think it’s possible to put our ideas, opinions and theology to the test if we don’t have other people to bounce it off, discuss it with or test it out on who also desire to serve God with all their soul and all their might?
We first and foremost serve a God of relationship. With Him and with each other. Certainly, we aren’t always going to have “perfect” relationships with each other. Being in a face to face community, one where there are multiple individuals seeking to walk out a biblical life, multiple people learning, growing, and maturing is more valuable than just about any other aspect of Torah that I can think of.
I would invite people to seek out a real Jewish “Midrash”. You wanna see passionate disagreement? LOL. Being respectful in our disagreement though should always be a given. It’s not necessary that we have total agreement with each other in a community. But, it is necessary that we have respect, compassion and grace for each other as we do that growing and maturing. I seriously doubt you will ever find a community that doesn’t have every real-world problem you can imagine. But real community relating is like a diamond when it comes to working out and dealing with those real-world problems and issues.
Seriously, pick a community, any community that has people seeking to walk out a Godly Torah observant life. Can’t find one in your area? Okay, then start a bible study in your home and invite people. There’s nothing stopping you but you.
When we’re left to our own thoughts, opinions, theology, or biblical worldviews, more often than not, we will end up convincing ourselves that they’re right. Just sayin…
Find a place…….the place is our hearts as individuals. First and foremost, the Spirit has times and seasons for each of us in training. If there is a group that is able to absorb the growth pangs of individuals in a Christlike manner, great. If like me, you are called out for a season to learn who Christ is apart from the ‘ protestant church copyright’ Sola Abominised Scripta …be obedient to that call. Purifying our hearts is the aim of every interaction Elohim’s hand places us in and not expressly with those who are ‘IN’. The gift to stand whilst alone is not always easily opened either. Each group and individual will come together as part of the growth process that begins in Heaven. It is our good Father who is leading; to remove or engage us from & with others for the building of the Kingdom. He will give us the list of the Greater and the Lesser as we choose His Life in us. When I first started on-line it was look only, no involvement & now my engagement is growing. In face to face stuff….. It says that in the end times it may only be one from a town or 2 from a family that heed the call to follow truth. So this desire for community is also perhaps a little premature physically. We must trust Him as builder & follow NOT lead. I hope it is not the spirit of loneliness that is placing the desire and urgency in many more hearts for this community to have a more pronounced identity, prematurely so as not to be the image. May we pray for the hurdles of separation in doctrine to be made surmountable by walking in integrity and listening personally engaged physically in this realm whether bodily or letters on pages or video or voice. My understanding is community is becoming solidified both ON and OFFLINE in this desire. It is natural for more and more folk to voice this desire to experience God’s Family Life now. The only pre-requisite I see scripturally is unity in TRUTH & as we haven’t all arrived at that, I agree we need a faithful compassion toward one another as we maintain integrity to our present revelation. The issue of loneliness seems to part of the condition of seeking El with all your heart, just as much as it may be a condition of the fear of men & the personal knowledge of an inability to lovingly communicate that keeps us separated.
Perhaps that is mercy from above until we mature so we don’t destroy the small green growth that needs a season before it is tested further in a greater intimacy with one another.
Shalom All FJ
Greetings friend
I would respectfully disagree in regards to “desire for community being premature”, or that the finding of a place is just in “our hearts as individuals” even at an early or beginning stage in our pursuit of walking out a Torah observant life. And I just don’t see that supported in a biblical sense either. I’m of the understanding that we first and foremost serve a God of relationships. Relationships happen, are built upon and grow, primarily through face to face interaction.
It’s through and by that face to face physical community that change and growth happen inside of. Even if the community is very small (2 or 3 even) or not perfectly trained up, you will see forward growth progress right away. If we’re left to our own understandings then almost without fail we immediately start building bad habits, opinions, etc. Those habits, ideas and opinions incredibly enough, seem to get worked out if you’ve surrounded yourself with others of like mind and intent. I just don’t see any way for that to happen unless we actively and purposely seek it out.
I think it vital that there are others, who we have to face or meet with, on a regular basis that can ask us, “where in the world do we see that in the text?” or “how did you come to that opinion?”. I personally learned that myself my first day in a community when someone confronted me it that same way. It caused me to immediately start asking myself, “why do I think that or this or the other thing?”. I find that an incredibly useful and necessary frame of mind to be and stay in.
Our directive from our Master and King, Yeshua, is to go make disciples(learners). We should always be asking ourselves, “who is disciplining me and who am I discipling?” If we’re not able to answer either one of those questions then something is probably lacking and needs attention. Discipleship is only possible through face to face interaction.
I certainly don’t wish to diminish the importance or usefulness of an online interaction but, it certainly doesn’t, can’t take the place of, or be a substitute for face to face community. So yes, I absolutely, 100% agree with Tanya, ” It takes active practice. Find a place to practice.” even if it doesn’t look and act perfectly.